Exclusive: The
Makers of Jesus Camp
Source:
Edward Douglas
September 22,
2006
If you've ever had deep thoughts or heavy
debates about religion, you're likely to
have even more after seeing
Jesus Camp, the new documentary from
Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady (The Boys of
Baraka).
They took their cameras inside the world of evangelical Christians, specifically Becky Fischer's "Kids on Fire" summer camp in Devil's Lake, North Dakota, where kids are trained at an early age to spread God's word as "Christian soldiers." Often, these sermons involve teaching kids to blindly follow the leader of the country and to protest abortion, things that might seem a bit out of place when you consider that some of these kids are as young as 6-years-old. And yet, Jesus Camp is surprisingly unbiased as it observes Fischer's classes and interviews her young congregation without any injected judgments.
CS Indie spoke to the two filmmakers recently before the movie opens in two of the more liberal American cities, where it's likely to be seen in a very different light than in the Heartland where it takes place.
CS Indie: What was your motivation for finding out about the evangelical training these kids were getting at Becky Fischer's camp?
Rachel Grady: Heidi and I, we have a production company together, and religion has always been something we're both very fascinated and intrigued by. It's one of the basic tenets of the human experience. I had just finished a film that starred 12-year-old aspiring preacher named Devon Brown, and we thought it would be a wonderful way to explore faith through the eyes of a child, and would maybe help answer some questions of ours, such as where does faith come from, why is one person more devoted than another, a lot of the things that we're curious about. Basically, that was the impetus to start looking for a story that would be told through the lens of a child. We ended up stumbling upon Becky Fischer's ministry, which totally focuses on children, and that's where the journey began.
CS: How did you approach her to do this?
Heidi Ewing: Actually, we approached Becky the way we've approached all of our subjects for any film or television documentary we've ever done, which is to call her up and tell her what we're interested in and why we're interested, and we went out to North Dakota to meet her. She saw our last film, "The Boys of Baraka," and she checked out our website and all the clips related to all the films that we've ever done. She asked a few questions. She asked us about the name of our company, which is Loki Films, which apparently is a Norse God. She was confused about the pagan reference, and we explained to her that we just thought it was cute, you know, things you'd never think about. She was curious to why any secular person would be interested in what she was doing and a little bit flattered, but she definitely did check us out and decided that we were telling the truth and that we really wanted to go in with open eyes and without a lot of bias and just check out what she was doing and follow her ministry and what she was doing with those kids. Getting access wasn't particularly difficult at all. I think in this case, definitely the evangelical community at large feels very emboldened and confident right now, for a lot of obvious reasons, so I think that did help them say "yes." I think maybe five or ten years ago, they might have been more suspicious and thought, "Well, why would we ever submit ourselves to this?" I think they're proud of what they're doing, they're proud of how they're raising their kids and they said, "Come on in."
They took their cameras inside the world of evangelical Christians, specifically Becky Fischer's "Kids on Fire" summer camp in Devil's Lake, North Dakota, where kids are trained at an early age to spread God's word as "Christian soldiers." Often, these sermons involve teaching kids to blindly follow the leader of the country and to protest abortion, things that might seem a bit out of place when you consider that some of these kids are as young as 6-years-old. And yet, Jesus Camp is surprisingly unbiased as it observes Fischer's classes and interviews her young congregation without any injected judgments.
CS Indie spoke to the two filmmakers recently before the movie opens in two of the more liberal American cities, where it's likely to be seen in a very different light than in the Heartland where it takes place.
CS Indie: What was your motivation for finding out about the evangelical training these kids were getting at Becky Fischer's camp?
Rachel Grady: Heidi and I, we have a production company together, and religion has always been something we're both very fascinated and intrigued by. It's one of the basic tenets of the human experience. I had just finished a film that starred 12-year-old aspiring preacher named Devon Brown, and we thought it would be a wonderful way to explore faith through the eyes of a child, and would maybe help answer some questions of ours, such as where does faith come from, why is one person more devoted than another, a lot of the things that we're curious about. Basically, that was the impetus to start looking for a story that would be told through the lens of a child. We ended up stumbling upon Becky Fischer's ministry, which totally focuses on children, and that's where the journey began.
CS: How did you approach her to do this?
Heidi Ewing: Actually, we approached Becky the way we've approached all of our subjects for any film or television documentary we've ever done, which is to call her up and tell her what we're interested in and why we're interested, and we went out to North Dakota to meet her. She saw our last film, "The Boys of Baraka," and she checked out our website and all the clips related to all the films that we've ever done. She asked a few questions. She asked us about the name of our company, which is Loki Films, which apparently is a Norse God. She was confused about the pagan reference, and we explained to her that we just thought it was cute, you know, things you'd never think about. She was curious to why any secular person would be interested in what she was doing and a little bit flattered, but she definitely did check us out and decided that we were telling the truth and that we really wanted to go in with open eyes and without a lot of bias and just check out what she was doing and follow her ministry and what she was doing with those kids. Getting access wasn't particularly difficult at all. I think in this case, definitely the evangelical community at large feels very emboldened and confident right now, for a lot of obvious reasons, so I think that did help them say "yes." I think maybe five or ten years ago, they might have been more suspicious and thought, "Well, why would we ever submit ourselves to this?" I think they're proud of what they're doing, they're proud of how they're raising their kids and they said, "Come on in."
CS: What are your own religious
affiliations, if I may ask, and how were you
able to go in there without having an
opinion on what you were filming?
Grady: I was raised Jewish, basically non-religious, and Heidi is a self-described lapsed Catholic, and we both had some interaction and experience with evangelical Christians, but mostly with Baptists, however I think the fact that we really went into this film with an innocence. We were just looking for a film that explored faith in children that when the more startling aspects of the political ramifications of the blending of religions and politics revealed themselves and became very pronounced to us, we were able to incorporate them in our film in a way that I hope will be construed as non-judgmental. I hope that it's understood in the context which we learned it, we weren't looking for this story, the story sort of revealed itself to us.
CS: Did Becky help get you in touch with the kids and parents?
Grady: Actually, we met all of the kids and the families because they were already going to her conferences and camps. They were already part of her community. We started looking for kids that would be articulate, and we cast our children from the pool that were already going to her camp.
CS: How many cameras did you use while shooting the sermons?
Ewing: We usually had two cameras rolling, which was unusual for us, but a lot of the revival meetings and the scenes had a lot of kids in it and a lot of action, and we didn't want to miss anything, so we had two cinematographers most of the time. The whole crew was women, by the way, which is kind of cool. I think everyone was very comfortable with us and we just tried not to miss anything.
CS: Did people notice you and approach you or did you just blend in?
Ewing: I think we started blending in very quickly. These meetings are very intense, and everyone's really, really focused on the sermon and on their relationship with God and all these things that are happening at the moment. I think we were able to get very genuine material, very quickly, because again, we were not the center of attention. We were sort of a sidenote in their lives, and I think that allowed us to get such genuine material.
CS: Having an all-woman crew, did any of them take issue with any of the things being taught to the kids, in particular the anti-abortion, sorry, pro-life ideas?
Grady: Well, I don't think there was a stronger reaction, because it was all females. I think that sometimes, we ourselves and our crew were a little shaken up by what we were filming, just because it is incredibly intense, and I don't think a lot of us had ever experienced anything like that with children so young, getting so worked up over anything that I'd always, at least personally, considered sort of grown-up talk, but I don't know if it was any more affected by the fact we were all women. I think it's pretty intense stuff, as you saw in the film.
CS: Once you finished filming and started editing it together, did Becky ask to see an early version or ask for changes?
Ewing: No, I mean she was curious. She asked us how things were going. She knew we were editing and she knew that she wouldn't be seeing the film until it was finished. We brought the film to all the people who starred in it and their kids a couple months ago when we finished it, and they got a private screening in their living rooms and we discussed the film with them out of respect. But there was never any implication that there was going to be any editorial control. They could weigh in, but we weren't necessarily going to change anything. Nobody really saw it until it was finalized, and that was okay with everyone. Actually, it was so interesting, the kids were strangely disinterested in the final product and in the process. They liked us and it was cool that we were around, but we definitely weren't the main focus even when we were there. They had a lack of vanity and they're very focused kids on what they're doing, especially when it comes to God. We found it interesting that they didn't ask us or call us about when it was going to be finished. They weren't that curious about it. They liked the final film, they've all seen it, but it wasn't like the focus of their lives or anything.
Grady: I was raised Jewish, basically non-religious, and Heidi is a self-described lapsed Catholic, and we both had some interaction and experience with evangelical Christians, but mostly with Baptists, however I think the fact that we really went into this film with an innocence. We were just looking for a film that explored faith in children that when the more startling aspects of the political ramifications of the blending of religions and politics revealed themselves and became very pronounced to us, we were able to incorporate them in our film in a way that I hope will be construed as non-judgmental. I hope that it's understood in the context which we learned it, we weren't looking for this story, the story sort of revealed itself to us.
CS: Did Becky help get you in touch with the kids and parents?
Grady: Actually, we met all of the kids and the families because they were already going to her conferences and camps. They were already part of her community. We started looking for kids that would be articulate, and we cast our children from the pool that were already going to her camp.
CS: How many cameras did you use while shooting the sermons?
Ewing: We usually had two cameras rolling, which was unusual for us, but a lot of the revival meetings and the scenes had a lot of kids in it and a lot of action, and we didn't want to miss anything, so we had two cinematographers most of the time. The whole crew was women, by the way, which is kind of cool. I think everyone was very comfortable with us and we just tried not to miss anything.
CS: Did people notice you and approach you or did you just blend in?
Ewing: I think we started blending in very quickly. These meetings are very intense, and everyone's really, really focused on the sermon and on their relationship with God and all these things that are happening at the moment. I think we were able to get very genuine material, very quickly, because again, we were not the center of attention. We were sort of a sidenote in their lives, and I think that allowed us to get such genuine material.
CS: Having an all-woman crew, did any of them take issue with any of the things being taught to the kids, in particular the anti-abortion, sorry, pro-life ideas?
Grady: Well, I don't think there was a stronger reaction, because it was all females. I think that sometimes, we ourselves and our crew were a little shaken up by what we were filming, just because it is incredibly intense, and I don't think a lot of us had ever experienced anything like that with children so young, getting so worked up over anything that I'd always, at least personally, considered sort of grown-up talk, but I don't know if it was any more affected by the fact we were all women. I think it's pretty intense stuff, as you saw in the film.
CS: Once you finished filming and started editing it together, did Becky ask to see an early version or ask for changes?
Ewing: No, I mean she was curious. She asked us how things were going. She knew we were editing and she knew that she wouldn't be seeing the film until it was finished. We brought the film to all the people who starred in it and their kids a couple months ago when we finished it, and they got a private screening in their living rooms and we discussed the film with them out of respect. But there was never any implication that there was going to be any editorial control. They could weigh in, but we weren't necessarily going to change anything. Nobody really saw it until it was finalized, and that was okay with everyone. Actually, it was so interesting, the kids were strangely disinterested in the final product and in the process. They liked us and it was cool that we were around, but we definitely weren't the main focus even when we were there. They had a lack of vanity and they're very focused kids on what they're doing, especially when it comes to God. We found it interesting that they didn't ask us or call us about when it was going to be finished. They weren't that curious about it. They liked the final film, they've all seen it, but it wasn't like the focus of their lives or anything.
CS: Having shown it to the families, what
were the reactions to the movie like?
Ewing: It's very varied, and the jury is still out on how evangelical Christians are going to look at the movie. We want everyone to see it, especially evangelical Christians, because we tried very hard to make it fair and representative. The people in our film love the movie. Everyone who is featured in the film feels that they're accurately portrayed, except for Ted Haggard, who is the head of the National Association of Evangelicals, and we're very disappointed in his reaction to the movie, because we really went above and beyond to try to be fair and be accurate. Actually, the people in our film are a little bit offended by his rejection of the movie, because they feel very much part of his community and evangelical movement, and they feel that they have much more in common with his constituents than they do differences. They vote in a similar fashion, and they have the same, I guess you'd say, moral values as Ted Haggard and his constituents. I think they're kind of stung by the fact that the won't support and embrace the film, and we're really not exactly sure why, because Christians who have seen the movie, the majority of Evangelicals who came to the word-of-mouth screenings, came in they said with a preconceived notion that they maybe they'll be treated unfairly, but they leave the cinema and they say, "Wow, I'm glad I came. I almost didn't come, but I thought that was fair and balanced," and they feel good about me. He seems to be the only one so far that feels that we did not do right by these people.
Grady: And it turns out that when people do give it a chance and actually see the film that they're pleasantly surprised, and I think that will be the prevalent reaction, to tell you the truth.
CS: Have any Evangelicals seen this and thought that maybe some of the things that are being taught to their kids may be inappropriate or too politicized?
Ewing: We haven't had that kind of conversation yet with our audiences, because we haven't had a chance to; the movie just opened. We'd like to hear from people who have that opinion. We know that there is a growing number of evangelical Christians and there's been some pastors who've spoken out in the last few months, saying that the religion has been too politicized, and that they do not want preach politics from the pulpit. They do not think that it's appropriate that the evangelical movement is seen by some as part and parcel to the Republican party, and I think that's making certain people uncomfortable, and some pastors have come out against it. I hope they see the movie, because I think this could spark an interesting conversation amongst Evangelical Christians, which is ironic because neither Rachel nor I are Evangelicals. There definitely is a conversation that people want to have, including within the whole movement, so I think this could spark that conversation.
CS: Just one last question about what happened with Michael Moore's festival. Was that a decision on your part to not show the movie there?
Grady: You know what? Heidi and I didn't have very much to do with that on either end. We weren't the ones that had initially promised the festival the piece, and we weren't the ones that wanted to pull it out either, so we were just sort of caught in the middle of that one.
Jesus Camp is now playing in the middle of the country, but it opens in New York today (September 22) and in Los Angeles on September 29.
Ewing: It's very varied, and the jury is still out on how evangelical Christians are going to look at the movie. We want everyone to see it, especially evangelical Christians, because we tried very hard to make it fair and representative. The people in our film love the movie. Everyone who is featured in the film feels that they're accurately portrayed, except for Ted Haggard, who is the head of the National Association of Evangelicals, and we're very disappointed in his reaction to the movie, because we really went above and beyond to try to be fair and be accurate. Actually, the people in our film are a little bit offended by his rejection of the movie, because they feel very much part of his community and evangelical movement, and they feel that they have much more in common with his constituents than they do differences. They vote in a similar fashion, and they have the same, I guess you'd say, moral values as Ted Haggard and his constituents. I think they're kind of stung by the fact that the won't support and embrace the film, and we're really not exactly sure why, because Christians who have seen the movie, the majority of Evangelicals who came to the word-of-mouth screenings, came in they said with a preconceived notion that they maybe they'll be treated unfairly, but they leave the cinema and they say, "Wow, I'm glad I came. I almost didn't come, but I thought that was fair and balanced," and they feel good about me. He seems to be the only one so far that feels that we did not do right by these people.
Grady: And it turns out that when people do give it a chance and actually see the film that they're pleasantly surprised, and I think that will be the prevalent reaction, to tell you the truth.
CS: Have any Evangelicals seen this and thought that maybe some of the things that are being taught to their kids may be inappropriate or too politicized?
Ewing: We haven't had that kind of conversation yet with our audiences, because we haven't had a chance to; the movie just opened. We'd like to hear from people who have that opinion. We know that there is a growing number of evangelical Christians and there's been some pastors who've spoken out in the last few months, saying that the religion has been too politicized, and that they do not want preach politics from the pulpit. They do not think that it's appropriate that the evangelical movement is seen by some as part and parcel to the Republican party, and I think that's making certain people uncomfortable, and some pastors have come out against it. I hope they see the movie, because I think this could spark an interesting conversation amongst Evangelical Christians, which is ironic because neither Rachel nor I are Evangelicals. There definitely is a conversation that people want to have, including within the whole movement, so I think this could spark that conversation.
CS: Just one last question about what happened with Michael Moore's festival. Was that a decision on your part to not show the movie there?
Grady: You know what? Heidi and I didn't have very much to do with that on either end. We weren't the ones that had initially promised the festival the piece, and we weren't the ones that wanted to pull it out either, so we were just sort of caught in the middle of that one.
Jesus Camp is now playing in the middle of the country, but it opens in New York today (September 22) and in Los Angeles on September 29.